pwoller Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 6000 lbs in a 96x48 footprint. 32 square feet of stand. 6000 devided by 32 is 187 lbs a square foot. If you stand on one foot in this space does the concrete crack? Like others said there are alot of people on the internet that will try to spend your money. I'd say your good but I'm no expert. Someone check my math please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 There got to be someone at the reef or premium aquatics that knows someone who could answer the question regarding concrete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 6000 lbs in a 96x48 footprint. 32 square feet of stand. 6000 devided by 32 is 187 lbs a square foot. If you stand on one foot in this space does the concrete crack? Like others said there are alot of people on the internet that will try to spend your money. I'd say your good but I'm no expert. Someone check my math please. I think it's crazy too but with the math above, the assumption is being made that the weight is evenly distributed. My stand is 2" wide and covers that 96"X48" area. If you think of it in that manner all the weight is distributed over 560 sq inches. That comes out to 10.7 psqi assuming 6000 pounds. You then throw in the fact that most of the weight is distributed by the 6 vertical supports and you likely get more pressure distributed to those legs. I'm not an expert on the topic either but just want to make sure I'm not going to make a major mistake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 There got to be someone at the reef or premium aquatics that knows someone who could answer the question regarding concrete I'm going to consult with PA since I'm a frequent purchaser:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdebord Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I would gusset the top at the same places you did the bottom. Seems like it wouldn't be that much more while already at the welding shop. If powder coating was less than $500, I would jump on it. If more than that I would have to buy jewelry too, but still might consider it for something you planning for the next 10 years+, if more than a grand I might look at other options. Your call though! The tank and stand are your most permanent pieces of equipment; I'm sure you know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleffew Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Dustin , I don't see what thickness of 2"sqtb you are wanting to go with anywhere ... What are you thinking in wall thickness ?? I stock 16ga up to 1/4 .. i would definately go with the 1/4". Also maybe kick around some rect tube .. like a 4" x 2 " 1/4" wall. Have you seen the platform for the 1000 galloon tank on Craigslist ? That tank was made at ATM and appears to be exactly like what you are building . BTW you can search A500 B for the specs on the 2" tubing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 I would gusset the top at the same places you did the bottom. Seems like it wouldn't be that much more while already at the welding shop. If powder coating was less than $500, I would jump on it. If more than that I would have to buy jewelry too, but still might consider it for something you planning for the next 10 years+, if more than a grand I might look at other options. Your call though! The tank and stand are your most permanent pieces of equipment; I'm sure you know that. I might have a better idea on this but I'm hoping it's less than $500. I'm expecting the $300-$400 range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Dustin , I don't see what thickness of 2"sqtb you are wanting to go with anywhere ... What are you thinking in wall thickness ?? I stock 16ga up to 1/4 .. i would definately go with the 1/4". Also maybe kick around some rect tube .. like a 4" x 2 " 1/4" wall. Have you seen the platform for the 1000 galloon tank on Craigslist ? That tank was made at ATM and appears to be exactly like what you are building . BTW you can search A500 B for the specs on the 2" tubing . 1/4" tubing is what I'm interested in and from what I can tell, my stand is made of 1/4" wall thickness too. Sorry for not detailing that, kind of important:) I've got my drawings going to an engineer I know from Purdue as well as a friend's contact that is an architect. He's going to look at the stand and try to give me some more information on the concrete too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJGreene Posted June 11, 2012 Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Ok, back to the additions to your stand. I would think you would want to figure out what is going to be below your tank, in the stand, and then decide how you're going to get that equipment in the stand (and possibly back out). Once you determine that, then you could figue the best way/location of adding more supports. Of course, that might depend on what your engineer friend says, as to what would be the best way to beef up the frame. That might have an impact on how, or what, you put in the stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2012 Ok, back to the additions to you stand. I would think you would want to figure out what is going to be below your tank, in the stand, and then decide how you're going to get that equipment in the stand (and possibly back out). Once you determine that, then you could figue the best way/location of adding more supports. Of course, that might depend on what your engineer friend says, as to what would be the best way to beef up the frame. That might have an impact on how, or what, you put in the stand. I have a good idea of what I plan to do under the tank. Left side will be an additional sump tied into my 125 gallon sump, pump or two in the middle and plumbing for overflow, and right side will house some equipment. All will require access so I'd like to keep the latest design specs if I can get the engineer to agree with my designs:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plantguy Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 If you widen the base, you increase the surface, and lower the PSI. I know one guy that cut flat 1/2" steel, 6" wide to get his PSI under the MPa rating of the slab he had. (Only needed half that, but wanted to be safe) I've also taken a K-12 saw to a few basements and poured UPHC back in on a couple installs that we wanted to make sure stayed exactly where we put them. Hard part with that is knowing if you should rebar the section in to the existing slab, or leave it free floating. One project, the engineer wanted it tied, the next, he wanted it floating, why? No idea, but Im glad it was his call, and not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaco Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 My .02... I think your slab will be fine as long as there is no void space under your foundation. If you have water seepage under your foundation as well it could soften the dirt and let the concert sag and crack. Just give yourself a good safety factor in the final design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 My .02... I think your slab will be fine as long as there is no void space under your foundation. If you have water seepage under your foundation as well it could soften the dirt and let the concert sag and crack. Just give yourself a good safety factor in the final design. I appreciate everyone's 2 cents;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 One of the things I've consistently got feedback on is that this is a lot of weight displaced on a small area. To feat this, I'm going to use a platform (2X4s and 2X8s) to build the stand upon which will help distribute the weight better. Below are some of the details:) Steel Stand: 2(96X2) + 2(44X2) = 560 square inches With Treated Lumber: 2(96X7.25) + 3(32X7.25) + 4(33.5X3.5) + 6(9.625X3.5) = 2,759.125 square inches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rms5613 Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 One of the things I've consistently got feedback on is that this is a lot of weight displaced on a small area. To feat this, I'm going to use a platform (2X4s and 2X8s) to build the stand upon which will help distribute the weight better. Below are some of the details:) Steel Stand: 2(96X2) + 2(44X2) = 560 square inches With Treated Lumber: 2(96X7.25) + 3(32X7.25) + 4(33.5X3.5) + 6(9.625X3.5) = 2,759.125 square inches Wow - I have a 600 that 96x30 that sits on a stand made out of 2x6 untreated pine. No issues, great weight distribution. Sometimes I think we over think things to death. My suggestion Keep It Simple. I have a 600 gallon bow front stand that is made out of 2x2 stainless that sits on top of 3x3x1/4 tube steel. Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Can't say I don't disagree but I'm not exactly the type that just hopes for the best. I'm a bit meticulous and like to do things right the first time, especially when I hope to have the tank up for 10+ years. This is the type of data I like to see on the stand The modulus if elasticity for steel (E) is 30000ksi. 2x2 1/4 in steel square will have a surface area of 1.75 in^2. You have a total of six, 6*1.75 = 10.5 in^2. Assuming a weight of 8.7 lbf for your water, and then adding in three times the gallonage for your rocks, sand etc then multiplying the total weight by 1.3 (for safety) ^we get 1.3(600*8.7lbf + 3*600lbf) = 9126lbf. Now dividing the total load by the surface are gives us the pressure (stress) on each support. 9126lbf/10.5in^2 ~= 870 psi The formula relating strain to stress E*e = S Where e is strain, and S is stress Solving for the strain on your columns ^we get 870 psi/ 30000000psi = 0.00002897 in/in With way less then 1% strain (deflection) you are good there. Now because the 6 supports can be considers columns you need to check for buckling...the formula for critical buckling load is F=pi^2*E*I/(K*L)^2 Where K is 0.5 for fixed ends, L is the length of the column, and I is the moment of inertia Applying this formula for three different columns at 12,24,and 36 in length respectively you get the critical load of 7496444 lbf, 1874111lbf, and 832938lbf. You should not have to worry about buckling. In conclusion, stand is fine the way it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwoller Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Wow - I have a 600 that 96x30 that sits on a stand made out of 2x6 untreated pine. No issues, great weight distribution. Sometimes I think we over think things to death. My suggestion Keep It Simple. I have a 600 gallon bow front stand that is made out of 2x2 stainless that sits on top of 3x3x1/4 tube steel. Just my 2 cents I agree, people way over build stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msr224 Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 Can't say I don't disagree but I'm not exactly the type that just hopes for the best. I'm a bit meticulous and like to do things right the first time, especially when I hope to have the tank up for 10+ years. This is the type of data I like to see on the stand The modulus if elasticity for steel (E) is 30000ksi. 2x2 1/4 in steel square will have a surface area of 1.75 in^2. You have a total of six, 6*1.75 = 10.5 in^2. Assuming a weight of 8.7 lbf for your water, and then adding in three times the gallonage for your rocks, sand etc then multiplying the total weight by 1.3 (for safety) ^we get 1.3(600*8.7lbf + 3*600lbf) = 9126lbf. Now dividing the total load by the surface are gives us the pressure (stress) on each support. 9126lbf/10.5in^2 ~= 870 psi The formula relating strain to stress E*e = S Where e is strain, and S is stress Solving for the strain on your columns ^we get 870 psi/ 30000000psi = 0.00002897 in/in With way less then 1% strain (deflection) you are good there. Now because the 6 supports can be considers columns you need to check for buckling...the formula for critical buckling load is F=pi^2*E*I/(K*L)^2 Where K is 0.5 for fixed ends, L is the length of the column, and I is the moment of inertia Applying this formula for three different columns at 12,24,and 36 in length respectively you get the critical load of 7496444 lbf, 1874111lbf, and 832938lbf. You should not have to worry about buckling. In conclusion, stand is fine the way it is... Yea, that's what I came up with when I figured it out too. Lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2012 That was not me either:) Can't take credit for that one as that was another reef geek on a site! I'm going to get the models together and go over it with my brother Sunday and then if all is a go I'm going to go ahead and order the steel first thing next week. Thanks for all the assistance and confirmations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I've sent the cuts off for the steel and below is the design I've went with. Provides for good access to under the stand and also adds gussets and additional square tube steel to ensure I don't have any deflection. Been really busy with other things in life so tank has taken back burner lately.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Lots of other things have happened recently and quite a few delays happened in getting the stand built in the past few weeks...That being said, I seem to be right back on track and I'm the only obstacle holding up progress! I've got to do finishing work on the stand and cleaning up the welds with some grinding but next step is getting the stand painted. Originally looked at powdercoating but because of many expenses that have cropped up lately and some other obstacles, I'm going to use white bedliner on the frame. Why white, so I can easily tell if rust is developing somewhere and helps keep the underside of the tank a little more lit for maintenance. I need to figure out what I should prep metal with before adding the bedliner so if anyone has any suggestions please feel free to share? I've got some research on the topic but hopefully can figure something out this week! Brother put to work: Again: Stand, still in need of some grinding and finishing but welding is complete: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdebord Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Looks good. Still going with the powder coat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Looks good. Still going with the powder coat? Actually think I'm going to do a white "bedliner". I've done a lot of reading and many have used this method and I've seen what type of abuse bedliner can put up with. I just finished grinding and smoothing out the welds and now researching best approach to cleaning it off so I can start on the bedliner. Hope to order all the supplies tonight so I can do it either this weekend or next week/weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted August 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 ...and of course the white is twice the price of the black standard you can pick up at Ace/AutoZone locally! Should I go with the black or stick with the white? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 22, 2012 Report Share Posted August 22, 2012 The powder coat you originally wanted to do would have been black, right? And if you were ok with that being black then is there a difference. Flashlights are cheap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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