Stomatopod blitz!

[alexkharden]

Ok, here's the deal. I've got no less than 5 mantis shrimp in the 306 pounds of Florida live rock I bought, maybe as many as 10. They are, of course, completely destroying my invert population. As an aside, I also have a couple (not many) bad crabs, and I've also seen at least 5 Cirolanid Isopods. All of these are things that I would like gone from my tank, obviously.

Compounding factors are:

A) The tank is cycled and there are inverts, fish, and coral that would be negatively impacted by causing a nitrogen cycle so I don't want to do things that will "kill" my rock or disrupt my system too severely.

The mantis are ignoring traps, likely because they're so well fed from my inverts, lol. Likewise the crabs and CI's aren't interested in traps or smelly water either. Right now food is just too plentiful in my tank for any interest to be generated.

C) If at all possible I want to remove the mantis shrimp alive. I'd like a species tank with a couple in it, plus I know I've seen at least 50 posts from people who would like to do the same. I'd happily donate my excess to that end for only the cost of shipping. The CI's can go down the crapper and the crabs may find a home in the sump, if there aren't too very many of them.

I've been doing a lot of brainstorming and reading. I fear that hypo/hyper salinity treatments would kill my rock. Likewise I believe would seltzer water. If I'm wrong on this point, someone please correct me.

The best idea I've read is suspending the rock over water and letting it dry, with water underneath, so that the shrimp (and crabs) make a dive for the water. This will likely be the death of any sponges/tunicates I have on the rock, but would it cause a massive die off of everything else? How long does it usually take for the shrimp to take that dive? Also, I doubt this would do anything for the CI's.

My original thought, a variant of this idea, is to put my rocks, one by one, into a 20 gallon at proper sg and temperature with normal flow. Inside this tank will be an eggcrate platform 10ish inches tall. On that platform I would set the rock. At that point could maybe force some directed high powered flow into the various cracks and holes in the rock to inspire the mantis, CI's and crabs to leave, the catch them in the open tank. Once each rock has been "cleared" I'd then put it into a separate 20 gallon, also at proper sg, temp, and flow, and leave it sit for a few days to listen for any telltale clicks/pops. Once cleared from that tank I could reintroduce it to the system in either the pump or fuge sections of my sump. Since I'm only removing two rocks at a time, and technically keeping them in the system for cycling purposes in the sump, I don't feel like this will cause a tank crash. I know once I get down to the bottom layer of rock I'll need to be super careful in not disturbing the sand, also to avoid tank crashes. Once the DT is cleared of rock, all the shrimp should be gone, all the rock should be living and happy. Yes, this is labor intensive. Yes, I think it would be worth it, if it would work.

The tank is 190 gallon. The sump is 75 gallon. I already have the two 20's set up as quarantines. So to implement this plan would only really require the construction of the platforms.

What I would like from all you fine people is experience and wisdom. Would/could this work? Would strong, directed flow be enough? Anyone ever attempted anything like this, with any success? Any modifications I should make to this plan, anything I'm forgetting?

I'm hoping that not only will I be able to solve my own mantis issues , but can possibly begin to create an almost guaranteed method of mantis/crab/CI extraction that is safe for the rock, the system, and the shrimp/crabs.

Fire away, I'd love all input!

[Budman]

Try it. They can be hard to get.

[Reefer82]

Perhaps reach out to Erin, Jokergirl on here. She has a mantis, has for awhile now and knows quite a bit and might know a trick or two.

 

Personally I have no experience with them. Your plan sounds reasonable, though potentially time intense. That's probably still better than costly dead fish and coral in the future however.

 

As far as the directed flow it probably depends on how stubborn the particular creature is being. I've seen crabs on on for dear life, to the point I caved under my emotions and just stabbed it with a pickle fork for removal. Lol.

 

Is this Tampa Bay saltwater rock? If so I have it in my 100g and at least as far as mine goes there are no deep recesses in it for things to hide like youd find with other types of rock so that's a plus on your end.

[alexkharden]

It is TBS rock, and even with the difficult critters I love it, lol. I think my experience is slightly different than yours though. True, about half of my rock is the normal Florida aquacultured LR that I've seen in the pictures of TBS rock, but I also lucked out and about half of it is pukani rock, I think anyway. Apparently Ricard put some of that rock on his lease, and I ended up being one of the lucky ones who got some. So while the rock I have is extremely intricate and beautiful, there are also plenty of mantis hidey holes, lol.

 

I'll see if Jokergirl is interested in providing some input on this, thank you!

[roush2000]

The biggest issue i predict is not getting them all. If even 1 mantis shrimp is missed it will continue to eat your fish and corals relentlessly. And the likelyhood of missing 1 is prob pretty high.

 

Given that, i don't have any better ideas than u had to get them necessarily. The hypersalinty worked instantly when i used it to clear out lots bristleworms. They came out sooo fast. And to my knowledge didny harm the life cycle in the rocks anymore than extended dry time would?? Good luck, be happy to help any way i can. Im on northside have tons of extra equipment if u need anything or a place to stash the inverts i have an unused 6' running in garage.

 

Would definitely take a mantis when u gettem all though. Would be a fun species tank to make

 

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[alexkharden]

Yes, that's my worry too. That's why I'm trying to develop some kind of foolproof, if labor intensive, way to accomplish this.

[dogum99]

IMO I would do whatever is necessary to get anything bad out of your tank. In the long run your tank will be much happier, and you will be much happier. Beating around the bush catching all this B/S just because its neat blah. What is the real goal here? The 190? Cook the rock reseed it with some good live rock and be done with it. Again this is just my opinion.

[alexkharden]

I'm not worried about neat. I paid a lot for my rock because I wanted the life on it. If I wanted barren rock I could have bought that and never had this situation to begin with. I knew in advance that there would be bad with the good. I'm not going to kill the 30 odd sponges and tunicates and squirts (that I've found), or the 50ish porcelain crabs, or the feather dusters and tube worms and etc..... just to get rid of a few mantis shrimp. I'm patient and I'll figure it out, even if no one wants to lend an assist.

 

Yes, it would be easier to nuke the rock and start over. Long term I, and my tank, will be much happier with the biodiversity that I have and want to keep.

[alexkharden]

The biggest issue i predict is not getting them all. If even 1 mantis shrimp is missed it will continue to eat your fish and corals relentlessly. And the likelyhood of missing 1 is prob pretty high. Given that, i don't have any better ideas than u had to get them necessarily. The hypersalinty worked instantly when i used it to clear out lots bristleworms. They came out sooo fast. And to my knowledge didny harm the life cycle in the rocks anymore than extended dry time would?? Good luck, be happy to help any way i can. Im on northside have tons of extra equipment if u need anything or a place to stash the inverts i have an unused 6' running in garage. Would definitely take a mantis when u gettem all though. Would be a fun species tank to make Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

On the northside, of Evansville?

[ryansweet]

I don't have any advice on how to catch the "bad", but I respect what you're trying to do. If you catch some of the mantis shrimp, I'd take one off your hands. I've been wanting a mantis for quite some time and have a tank sitting empty and calling my name to put something in it.

[alexkharden]

I don't have any advice on how to catch the "bad", but I respect what you're trying to do. If you catch some of the mantis shrimp, I'd take one off your hands. I've been wanting a mantis for quite some time and have a tank sitting empty and calling my name to put something in it.

You can definitely have one, for sure

Ya, I knew "bad" was a relative word. Mantis on their own are pretty freaking cool. They're just bad relative to the other things I'd like to stay living, lol. I'll be keeping one or two myself once I get them, but in their own tank. I have seen one baby mantis in there (about 1/2"), which I imagine will be one of the harder ones to catch, but might be fun to raise!

 

Thank you for your reply!

 

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[alexkharden]

Well crap. I just baited one of the x-terminator traps with a piece of shrimp and put it in the tank. Then I used a piece of 1/2" cpvc to maneuver it into position. One of the mantis actually came up to inspect the freaking cpvc. Right up to it, lol.

 

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[alexkharden]

Well, here's an update. I have successfully caught endless hermits and snails, and one rather large and nasty looking gorilla crab, no mantis yet.

 

I have two confirmed pistol sightings, so that might be a replacement for two of the mantis I counted. One of those seems to be fairly aggressive as the sighting occurred when I looked up and saw an urchin running like hell from a pair of pretty unique claws sticking out of a hole and clipping of several of its spines. I never knew an urchin could move so quickly.

 

Anyway, the gorilla has a new home in my fuge, and the mantis hunt goes on. It's too bad the porcelain crabs are filter feeders, if I could catch them and eliminate the mantis' primary food source I might have an easier time catching the mantis.

[alexkharden]

I did a rodi dip on a small rock that I believe had a small pistol in it. Three crabs came out looking like they did 10 rounds with Tyson, but no pistol shrimp. No clicking now either, so he's either recuperating or dead. I put the rock back into observation to see what any other life on it looks like, although I chose that rock specifically because it didn't have much on it. Overall, I don't really think I'm a big fan of the rodi method, but I'm reserving judgement.

I thought of another plan, specifically for mantis. I'm building that eggcrate stand, but not to put into quarantine. Bulk of rock to one side of display, a single rock on the stand on the other. My thinking is, if there's a mantis in there, he won't like having only one rock to hide in and won't like being exposed without ample places to run. He'll abandon the rock to go to the other side of the tank where the bulk of the rock is. Then I pull it out, and do the same thing to another rock. That should help me whittle down the infested rocks to a more manageable amount anyway. It might also work for pistols too, since it'll be up off the sand and the pistol won't be able to dig. He'll head on over to the other side for some rock protected sand.

I did find a little pistol shrimp dead in one of my filter socks, but I'm not sure how he made it up into the overflow. Se la vi I guess.

[alexkharden]

Wow, ok. So I set up my rock isolation stand this morning. Apparently either the mantis was in the rock (which I doubt), or it decided to check out the new tank addition. Either way, very awesome indications as to the effectiveness of this overall. I'm actually thinking an airstone under whatever rock is on the stand may serve to irritate the inhabitants and expedite their vacating of said rock.

 

 

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[roush2000]

Awesome. Hope it works well. I know everyone on the forum me included will be looking forward to setting up a mantis tank lol

 

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[alexkharden]

Awesome. Hope it works well. I know everyone on the forum me included will be looking forward to setting up a mantis tank lol Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

Lol, I "caught" one already. I use parentheses because it's in a rock, isolated in one of the 20g tanks. That's the only rock in there though, so he's not going anywhere. It isn't the big 2 1/2 incher that was swimming by the rock stand earlier though, I've seen him again since catching the other one. That big one is the one I'm keeping when I catch him, he's awesome! curious and fearless, lol. The one that I caught is going to be tough to get out of the rock he's in. There's a curlique anemone and a couple of really pretty squirts on it, so I won't do any dipping it. I think ill just have to trap it somehow.

[alexkharden]

I do think I'm going to have to downgrade my quantity estimate though. I'm thinking 4 mantis now, as I've confirmed two others are pretty large pistols.

 

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[alexkharden]

Ok, I guess I'll down-revise my count. I've isolated/quarantined/transferred a little over half my rock. I think there are three mantis total. The one I caught, the big one I haven't caught, and the baby I saw once. I guess there could be one more, but all of the mantis evidence I've seen could be explained by those three. Once I catch the big one I'm going to call it quits on the hunt, mainly because I think catching the baby will just be ridiculously painstaking. I'll suffer a few more crab and snail losses as it grows, but until it gets old/bold enough to start regularly showing itself I guess I'll just have to deal with it. Still trying to safely get the big one. Luckily, I've managed to do all of this without killing a thing

[alexkharden]

Got him! We saw him go into a rock, so I had my daughter watch and track him from rock to rock until he finally hunkered down into a rock that I could grab. Picked the whole rock up and put it into quarantine, and he immediately jumped out to try to find better cover and I yanked that rock out. Now there are two mantises in the quarantine (which I need to fix quickly) and hopefully just a baby in the main tank. Time to re-aquascape!

[ryansweet]

I'd be willing to take a road trip your way on Saturday or Sunday if either one is up for grabs.

[alexkharden]

The one that I'll give away absolutely refuses to come out of the rock he's in. So I'll either have to wait for him to come out, or sell the rock, lol. That's a new one, get an item for free, but pay for the packaging, lol.

[alexkharden]

Also, my efforts were not without failure. I woke up this morning to find one of my pistols, dead, in the sand. I can only think that a rock fell on him while I was getting the mantis yesterday. He was a pretty big one, about 1.5".

[alexkharden]

Well, hell. I read last night that my Royal Gramma was a carnivore, so I decided to chop up a piece of table shrimp and feed it to the tank. I was watching everything go crazy over it, and guess what decided to pop up? Another fully grown mantis. Not the baby, since I doubt that one grew two inches in a month. It figures, I get one mantis rehomed, and one set up in the 40 breeder with the lion fish, and now it looks like I have to think about two more. Super fun.

I had to kill a limpet because it went all psycho killer and started eating my little Devil's Hand, and I had to kill a mithrax crab because it utterly destroyed my little Hammer coral.

The ocean is a brutal place.

[alexkharden]

I'd be willing to take a road trip your way on Saturday or Sunday if either one is up for grabs.

Well, if you're still following this thread, the new one is yours if you want it. I'm not sure how I'll catch it yet, but when I do you can have it. I don't think I want to put it into the 40b, because I don't think I want two in there getting all territorial.