Blue Reef Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Hi All, My system is contaminated with copper and I was hoping to get some advice on the best way to proceed. I converted my old freshwater tank to a reef tank in August. I used live rock/sand, cycled it, and then added fish. All of my fish have done great (two false clowns, a six-line wrasse, and a kaudern's cardinal fish. However, whenever I tried to add coral to the tank, the coral would close up and eventually die. After a few rounds of this, I took my water to the LFS for testing and discovered that the parameters looked perfect except that I had copper in the water (not sure if the tank was previously treated with copper or if I purchased a bad batch of rock). I have been doing large water changes and running a filter with cuprisorb and polyfilter and the copper level in the water column is almost undetectable - one more big water change and a couple more days of filtering and I should be at zero. The one zoanthid that did not completely die off has started opening up a little more every day, which has never happened before. I have been told by some that I need to throw out the tank, sand, and rock and just start over. I would rather not do this, but if that is really the only thing I can do to have a successful reef I will. Just wanted some more opinions as that is a rather pricey option. Thanks in advance for the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Don't add coral and would say before just throwing everything out that you let it be without the filtration to pull the metals out. Do water changes as you normally would and periodically do copper tests to see where the levels are. If they are gone, maybe you've pulled out whatever caused the original problem. If it keeps coming back, getting rid of the sand/rock might be the end solution. What type of water do you use for your reef? What's the TDS measure out to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Reef Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Thanks for the reply! I am using RO/DI water and don't have a TDS meter yet, but the media in the RO/DI system was changed about three months ago and last week I ran a copper test on the water coming out of the system and that read zero. I had read on another forum that even if the copper in the water column was zero, it could remain bound to the rock/sand and be toxic to corals. Is that true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 I'm not exactly sure how it could be harmful to the coral if it's bound inside the rock but cannot speak from experience. I mentioned not putting any coral in place just so you can figure out without burning money and good to hear you have RO/DI unit. Based on the size of the tank and the amount of water you'd change over the course of three months I'd expect your TDS is acceptable. (Not to side track but would recommend this dual in-line TDS Meter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwoller Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not to be a downer but I've read that if copper was ever used in a tank that it cant be fully removed. It gets into silicone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Not to be a downer but I've read that if copper was ever used in a tank that it cant be fully removed. It gets into silicone. Paul, I've heard this too and always ask when I bought used tanks if they were ever treated with copper. I just don't know how copper, if trapped in the silicone would have negative impact on the coral if it's not in the water column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romeo1234_00 Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 I would question the test kit by a second opinion. I have a copper test kit myself and only used it twice. If your 100% sure your test kit is good then I would also follow the above recommendations. I once had what the club called the tank of death but it was due I believe to contaminated sand bed. Not at all related to the problems you are having but I got rid of my sand as per everyone's advice and my tank cured itself over a 6 month period. Best of luck with this. If you need another test kit let me know. I'll try to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwoller Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Dustin - I guess it leaches out of the silicone? You know the internet but I was just sharing what I read. Might be easier and cheaper to get a new tank instead of going through all the hassle of trying to remove it and never getting it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBugmaster Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 How about trying the product cuprisorb. Not sure if it actually works or not. Get a HOB filter and run it in there and see if it helps. Might be work a try before buying a whole new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coralfarm123 Posted December 8, 2012 Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 Did you ever treat your freshwater tank with copper based medication? I had a freshwater tank that I treated with copper sulfate and it made the silicone a little blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Reef Posted December 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2012 I don't remember for sure if I treated this tank previously with copper or not (I've had it since high school), but the silicone does have a bluish cast to it so I may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted December 9, 2012 Report Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've used cupramine in my fish QT and don't notice any discoloration of the silicone. I've used cupramine in it 3 times over about a month period between the three so maybe it takes longer for the discoloration to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Reef Posted December 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2012 So my copper levels never did become undetectable even with the cuprisorb, polyfilter, and carbon in the HOB filter. I double checked the test with the controls that came in the system and with my RO/DI water so I believe the result. I decided that it would be simpler at this point to just start over, and bought a new tank and live rock. This may be a dumb question, but is there any chance that anything plastic (powerhead, plumbing to the sump, etc) would be contaminated with copper or should a good rinse with RO/DI water when I change everything out suffice? I haven't found anything on the internet that says it would be contaminated, but wanted some input from you guys. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FordFamily Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 One bag of cuprasorb and 6 months and my quarantine tank with 2x dose of various coopers for over one year of use houses corals safely as we speak. No big deal at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3FordFamily Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Time is the best healer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdebord Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Calcuim based substates will hold on to and leach it back into the water, so all of them (sand, gravel, etc) should be completely removed/replaced. Also, copper test kits are made to detect medication levels and cant detect levels low enough to determine the much lower levels which are toxic to invertabrate - so the test may show low, or undetectable levels of copper but copper levels may still be many times higher than what is toxic to corals. JMTC & GL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Reef Posted February 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 The more I read on various forums, the more concerned I was that there would be copper leaching out my rock and sand for a long time without any way for me to tell if it was completely gone or not. So I did end up replacing all of the rock and sand when I bought my new tank. It was a little painful to have to start over, but second time around I was a little wiser thanks to you guys and I am much happier with my new set up. The new tank has been up and running (after curing the new rock in a trash can) for about 3 weeks. My paly frag that survived four months of copper poisoning(!) is opening up and growing now and I added a blasto frag last week that looks great. At least it looks great until my clown headbutts it to knock it off the rock and then dusts off the rock with her tail. Thanks for all of the help! I am almost done with working Saturdays and will be able to start coming to meetings soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Glad to see we'll have another Saturday meeting member! Hopefully you have Saturdays off before April as our frag swap is on the 27th! You should be able to get some really good deals at the swap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willy Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 What did you do with the old rock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Reef Posted February 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 I am probably going to use the old tank to set up a terrarium and was thinking of using the rock to landscape it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 That's good, or you could use it for a FOWLR tank too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willy Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 If you decide to trash the rock, PM me first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefhappy Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Hey scott.. I have about 10-15lbs or so that has been in a copper treated tank. If that is enough for what you need it for, you are more than welcome to it. A little thank you for handling the group reefcleaner order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefhappy Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Oh, it has not been in water for about 4 months. I had it in a hospital tank and then just decided to do a bare bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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