Guff Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 So looking at my sump design, hopefully I attached the pic properly. Please excuse the sketchup drawings tonight was the first time using it so they may be a bit rough. On the right would be the incoming line from the display tank, it would go through a small bubble trap and over a weir onto a shelf where I plan on using filter floss matts (its the area where there are two small squares where I would put egg crate which is not shown) it would then enter the skimmer area and then flow over into the return section. The far back left corner would be a refugium area that would be fed from a split off the return pump. The return pump would be plumbed at the end of the tank where the refugium is on the front corner of the tank where the 8" channel is located. Hope that all makes sense. Let me know your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Crap just realized I didn't have any dimensions on there tank is 6' long, the incoming section is 6", 2" between the baffles and 2" off bottom, 4" for the filter floss section, 24" wide for the skimmer section. Refugium is like 16" long and ~14" tall. Skimmer section is 12" tall. Also just realized that I forgot to add a bubble trap after my skimmer section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Ok, here is an updated one with the bubble trap after the skimmer section, it'll shrink the section by 4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 7, 2013 Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Probably more of a preference but I like filter socks over filter floss. Also, the baffles on far right side are not really needed as long as bubbles settle out when entering the return section. Only other concern is the refugium and where the outlet will be for the return pump? Should the bulkhead be down the channel between the outside wall of acrylic and the refugium you may have a lot of water rushing through that channel which could cause bubbles to enter the return pump. It's hard to tell the dimensions from the drawing but where do you plan to have the return pump plumbed in? What type of water flow through sump/fuge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2013 Yeah, I have a really bad habit of swapping the socks so I figured if I made the platform and just buy a huge role of the filter floss pad off ebay, I can just cut strips and put them in there on the shelf, then I can just pull it out and toss it and put a new one in every couple of days. Instead of having 10-20 socks that I have to swap and remember to wash, etc. The main reason for the entry baffle was b/c I couldn't come up with a good way to have the incoming lines submerged but still have access for easily replacing the filter floss mat (or socks if I change my mind), plus the tank has a eurobraced top that I haven't shown on this drawing just yet so allowing room for access by shifting the shelf to the left was also beneficial. I think you were thinking of the correct are for the return pump, I have uploaded another drawing that shows a rough hole location for the return pump. Return is going to be the reeflo dart gold to a header splicing off with 1500gph to the display, a BRS dual reactor, and then whatever I decide to divert to the refugium. That channel next to the refugium where the return is ~8" wide. The plans may change some as I also forgot about adding the existing overflows that are already in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Wow so no opinions or experts out there, increase decreasing section sizes or anything? I may play around this weekend and see if anything else comes to mind. Would be nice to have extra space to add more live rock in the sump to so the display doesn't have so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Glad mine was not considered an opinion. Sorry but been a VERY busy week! I think the design is rather solid and as long as it achieves what you want, you are good! Some suggestions.... - Where are you going to mount probes? - Will you be having float switches for ATO, high water alarm/alert, low water alarm/alert? - Drain on top inch of sump so it overflows to a drain? - Another drain towards bottom so you can drain sump for cleaning easily? - Bracing if you are going with 3/8" acrylic? That a better start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Sorry Dustin didn't mean to exclude or overlook your comments I had already made the adjustments to clarify a few of your previous comments, I do appreciate the feedback you gave. I will likely add the probes and floats of course in the return section, I'll also have a submersible pump in this section for the auto water changes, No way of getting anything to a hard drain unfortunately so I won't worry about those and I'll have a spare off the manifold return that I could come off to help with draining which was an item I hadn't thought of before now. Do you think 3/8" acrylic would need bracing in this application since the spans are only 23" and most will have an equalized pressure once the sump is filled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 10, 2013 Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 I don't think you should have an issue as the baffles are providing a lot of support but is something I'd closely look at when you do water tests. The return section where the refuge does not attach to is going to be the most likely to flex more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yeah, that's true the fuge will only be back supported about 50% due to the water level. Just kind of bummed looking at it that I don't have a whole lot of room for additional live rock, might be able to sneak some extra into the skimmer section possibly. I will be updating it to show the eurobrace and where the internal overflows are from the tank to see if that interferes, I'm guessing with my luck it will fall exactly where I have the bubble trap for the skimmer section, but we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 What Weld On would everyone recommend i've seen #4 be the most recommended, but know there is #16 and maybe something like #40? Any one with some experience let me know, I hope to get my final design nailed down this weekend so I can get the acrylic ordered from pop displays this weekend for next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 I'd recommend using weld-on 4 and use the "pin-method" to build it. Great and effective way to build acrylic tanks/sumps without any bubbles! Weld-on 16 works great for probe holders, and putting a coat over the corners after it's all set and before the first water test. 16 is thick and 4 is verrry thin. Some good links from Marc, such a helpful guy too. I've been e-mailing him back and forth on another topic this week. Tools to use Pin Method Thread on RC Pin method is most solid way I've seen acrylic put together and highly recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Good feedback, I have looked at that site numerous times but this will be the first time I've tried something and figure internal baffles on a sump would be a good learning experience. I'm thinking the baffles that go from side to side inbetween the walls of the tank might be tricky after the fact but hopefully I can do one side and then flip it over and get the other side. Worst case I can gusset it with #16 as you mentioned to help with strength or possible leaks. The RC thread was the one I had been searching for and couldn't find, I read that maybe a year ago and couldn't find the darn thing. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 11, 2013 Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 No problem. With how slow RC has been lately, I can understand the frustration. I've had some things delayed because of how horribly slow it is and I run out of time to find what I'm after. I might be switching over to R2R soon as I like the site a lot better. Met rev and his wife at MACNA and really nice people and like the direction they are taking the forum. Of course, stick to INDMAS the most but sometimes have to expand your knowledgebase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah, I know what you mean about RC, I post on there a lot just b/c you know you'll get a response fairly quick if it doesn't fall off the front page right away. It's just dealing with some of the people that just want to be condescending on their responses instead of truly being helpful. R2R = reef2reef.com? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 12, 2013 Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 Correct. Reef2reef.com Just don't go completely away from your local friends;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2013 No worries not going any where. Attached is a modified drawing with internal overflows and the eurobracing shown. Now have relented and show a 7" filter sock. The large box is a rough representation of hte skimmer based on the foot print dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 13, 2013 Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Depending on where the intake of the skimmer pump is might make sense to have the overlow come into the corner of the sump so it's more likely most of the water will be processed by the skimmer. Also, what are the two towers with teeth for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2013 Yeah, I might be able to rig something up I had the same thoughts about it dropping in right by the baffle. This is a tank that I got when I got taken on the bad tank I bought, so those are the existing overflows that I'll cap in place or possibly remove and cap off for use as a sump. The eurobracing is what is causing the problem so it's hard to get to the edge of the tank, though since its a sump and will have a much lower water level I could probably cut out a section for a sock to be installed. The openings along hte back is where it had already been cut out to install a pair of bio wheel filters from the previous owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I think I am just going to remove the eurobracing on the rightside of the tank and shift the sock and drain lines to the back right corner. I've had many comments pertaining to the width of the "channel" feeding the return pump, is there anything I can look up or review that would help with how wide that should be to prevent problems? Right now I believe where the return line will be plumbed in it will be approximately 8-10" wide and 12-13" deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I'm not sure you'll find anyone that can speak to what's acceptable on the "channel". Not an easy way of being certain, I'm still not certain I won't have bubble issues in my sump once I start going full flow on my two return pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 How far are you from filling yours and starting up the main system Dustin, i've been following for awhile. We should have tried for a bulk order for the Dart pumps, I only needed one but as many as you needed you could probalby get a discount of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Really don't have a date. I have no deadline, I just work on it when I have time and some other things have taken priority lately...(Painting nursery, buying furniture, painting basement, new carpet in basement, etc...) Right now trying to get some answers on acrylic buffing so I can get teh last of the swirls I can see out of the acrylic. Once those are out going to start plumbing it and will run water for a few days. Next is putting the rock in and aquascaping. I'll likely run it on a closed loop with RO/DI and let any phosphates leach out until I'm certain the marco rock is not holding any phosphates. After that, should be pretty quick to getting the setup going. Goal is before baby, ~4/16! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Well that's a little over a couple months and since it sees like you have pretty much everything already you should be in good shape. I have an ultimate detail machine that I've used on my car, that is a random orbital pattern that I was going to use on the tank I had if you think that would help your welcome to borrow it. I've been in the same mode while I wait for the tank to be produced, buying all the random parts not bought with the tank. Buying furniture for the basement so we have some place to sit and view the new tank. Luckily I finished the basement with wood flooring and everything last year. I've had my dedicated theater down there for 2 years now, that was the first item finished down there. I do still need to finish the shower down there, but since we'll never use it i've had no motivation to work on it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Yeah, a lot of work always it seems. It's one step at a time but I'm not in any mad rush, just enjoying the process I've borrowed the Porter Cable 7424xp from club member, just trying to ID the right polishing compound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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