Michael73

People get in and out of this hobby so fast, I bet you could get a used set up for a fraction of the $13,000 mentioned in the Today video. I've had tanks for over 28 years starting with a 10gal goldfish tank when I was 5. Over that many years you learn a lot and one of the most important things is patience. Patience is an important quality to have when aquiring top quality stuff since most of us don't have $13,000 to spend all at one time - or even $5,000 for that matter. In all my years of having tanks I've come to the realization that buying top quality (not necesarily most expensive) stuff will save lots of headaches and lots of purchases later. I've found this to be true for cheap heaters, pumps, wavemakers, ballasts and a whole lot of other stuff. Russ, you're absolutely right - it doesn't take $50-$70/gal to get a really nice 180 and I'm sorry if that number put anyone off but IMHO down the road you'll spend that as you replace the cheaper stuff you started out with when it breaks or when you find out you didn't oversize your stuff enough to account for future growth. Personally, I respect anyone up to the challenge of keeping an aquatic environment be it fresh, brackish, salt or even paludial. BTW, I'd be careful about calling people who spend that much on a tank extravagant or lazy. A lot of the high ticket items you would fit into that category like an aquacontroller, auto topoff (instead of manual) and calcium reactor (instead of drip kalk) become necesities for those of us who have to unavoidably travel on business but would still like to keep a tank going while we're gone. I've been putting my 180 together for the better part of 2 years and probably have that much to go (although I hope not!) but I know when I'm finally ready to fill my tank I'll have the piece of mind to know I've got a great set up that makes me happy and will provide years of solid service and expansion potential. At that point my goal is to focus on what's IN the tank, not all the stuff used to support it.

You said you've never heard of anyone spending $13,000 on a 180gal. I've read plenty of threads on RC where people have spent WAAAAAY more than that right out of the gate. How about that BubbleKing skimmer with a Red Dragon pump? How about the new LED hood on PA's site for a 72" version is over $3,000. Russ, the $7,500 list you provided doesn't include the need to run what should really be 2 -3 15amp circuits for lighting, pumps and doesn't include a chiller either - all of which might well be required with the MH lighting. It also doesn't include ANY fish. Even with your list I can get to $9,000. If you watched the video then you'd realize the people profiled in the tv piece are living in $1+ million homes and are EXACTLY the people calling up companies and asking for the amazing tank on the spot. At the end of the video the woman said, "c'mon, don't you think this tank is worth $120,000 - I DO!" Do you really think that type of person is going to quibble over a $500 calcium reactor? Really.... I don't mean to imply that you can't have a GREAT 180gal tank for less than $7,500, you can. Just realize that one person's Great is another's ho-hum. Jeremy at PA once told me he enjoys the tank set up process as much as the tank itself. For some people it's all about getting the latest and greatest at whatever cost and for those people at tank isn't "great" without it.

Well, let's see how high I can get for a 180: 180 (72"x18"25") in Acrylic with corner overflows and drilled for CL - $1500 Custom stand and canopy $1500 in oak (not building it yourself) Custom Acrylic sump $500 (Jeremy @ PA had IPI quote me on a custom sump which was ~65gal in acrylic and it was $650) EuroReef RC250 $1000 PFO MH/VHO 72" hood $1500 Tunze System (wavebox, multi-controller, and 2 T6000's) $1,300 Calcium Reactor $500 Chiller $500 RO/DI (5 stage 60gpd) + Auto Topoff $500 Aquacontroller III + Probes $1000 Closed Loop and Main return (in-sump) pumps $300 Fiji Rock (@ 1lb/gal *180gal, PA is $4.50/lb) $800 By my count this gets me to $10,900 I haven't even gotten wiring or plumbing run let alone sand, salt, test kits, refractometer and the BIGGEST expense the livestock. I'm betting that to get this baby fully stocked I can make it to $15,000 easy!

indymatt - McMaster Carr's Online Catalog is probably by far your best bet. I just bought a EuroReef CS250 at PA and wanted to do the gate valve mod - it's got a 1.5" outlet. The gate valve itself is $40.95 and the whole kit with all the plumbing precut etc. was like $39.95 - GO FIGURE. This is one of those rare ocassions where I admit I'm just lazy 'cause I know I could have bought the valve and pvc for between $20 and $25 but oh well.

"From a modest $13,000 to more than $1,000,000..." Lemme see, when quoting an "all-in" price I've heard in the $50-$70 range per gallon with the higer side tending to be for reef tanks with LPS/SPS. At $70/gal, $13,000 should buy you a stocked 180gal reef. I can believe that if you're not fabricating everything yourself and you're buying good quality stuff.

Marc Levenson has got a great review, check it http://www.melevsreef.com/fuge_bulb.html

I've been going around and around when it comes to the circulation issue. I happen to have a Sequence Dart sitting around that's never been used (nice problem to have) and I keep thinking I'll use it for a closed loop with an OM-4 way. Then I think what I should do is get a Tunze multicontroller, 2 T6000's and a wavebox. Yesterday, while I was "stuck" at Premium it was if the Tunze was yelling, "Pick me! Pick me!" :> Seriously, a Tunze system would be so cool and would provide all the flow I need for a very long time in my 180gal reef display. I'm just having issues getting over the price and the fact that the wavebox and T6000's are pretty large and not the most pretty things to have dangling off the edge of the tank.

This is too funny not to tell everyone about... I went to PA on my lunch hour to pick some stuff up but Jeremy was on the phone so I had to wait. While I was standing around I was looking at the new(er) 75gal tank they've set up right in the entrance. For circulation they've got 2 Tunze 6100's pushing water around that are attached to the side of the tank with a magnet. So, I bent over the edge of the tank to get a better look at things and I become keenly aware something in my nipple area is attracted to the Tunze. That's when I looked down to find the metal pen in my pocket attached to the tunze magnet too. I found it to be a somewhat attractive experience! :>

You have a PM

When I decided to go from fresh to salt it was in September 2004 and I'm still working on it. In fact, I'm basically all ready to go with a 150 and I've decided to change the stand, canopy and tank for a 180 instead. This "little" change is going to set me back 6 months or more.

I have an appointment at noon on Monday...will that work? I'm finally getting my skimmer...a ER CS250, can't wait!

Indymatt, as kyle mentions you can use a tandem breaker. That is exactly what I did since I had only 1 slot available. I had an unused 20amp breaker and replaced it with a tandem 20 and ran both lines to my aquarium - one for pumps, skimmer etc. and the other 20amp dedicated to my metal halide setup. As the link that kyle provided mentions, there are local codes which regulate these sorts of things as well as physical limitations imposed by the type of panel you have. Kyle is exactly right that if you have a 100amp service box you cannot exceed 100 total amps. HOWEVER, as a general rule of thumb it is not good to run a circuit at more than 75%-80% of its rate ampacity for long periods of time. It's also highly unlikely that every outlet and light are going to be on and used at the same time. As a result, if you add up the amps of each circuit in your box you are likely to find more capacity than service.

Russ, I'd love to come to the Super Mega Frag-O-Rama but I'm not sure I can make it. However, I'd definitely throw some money into the raffle - do you need to be present to win? Also, what's the possibility that I could use our INDMAS PayPal account to buy some raffle tickets? I could charge $21 to my credit card and get 4 raffle tickets + $1 to cover PayPal processing.

I'm along for the ride on this one. I have a glass tank (150gal - 72"x18"x28") and have considered using melev's closed loop idea as a starting point for a sequence dart pump and then 2 seaswirls. I dropped the idea of using the seaswirls after some concerns about long-term reliability and started thinking about an OM 4-way with some revolutions. Now my most recent thoughts have been dropping the idea of an external closed loop completely and using a couple of tunzes on a multicontroller instead. I'd like to hear different club members weigh in on this and help me figure out what the best flow options would be for a mixed reef (LPS, SPS, softies, maybe a couple of clams) and some reef-safe fish. Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread fkbsar but it seemed like we were both looking for flow ideas on non-drilled tanks...

I've got a ER CS8-3+ coming...not the recirc version but apparently a rare in-sump version made with DUAL sedra 5000's. I'll be using it in a 60+gal sump on a 150gal mixed reef display. I've got high hopes this will skim the daylights out of a tank this size

The day before yesterday The Grim Reefer also left RC - apparently banned for talking smack about some of the college bowl games. A bunch of people are PO'd because they also pulled his email link in his profile so people are having a hard time contacting him even outside RC. Here's an idea... Why can't we get these people registered here on this website and then let some other boards know if they're interested we've got 'em. It could be a great resource for us and a good traffic draw too!

Just wanted to get everyone's opinion here at Indmas...I sent this email to Marc Levenson (Melev) of ReefCentral fame earlier today - I have not received a response yet. "I wanted to get your perspective on something related to sumps. I've been working on setting up a 150gal (72"L x 18"W x 27"H) reef for a long time and thought I had a designed a sound sump made from a 30gal glass tank. I believe the sump is still quite good but I designed it with two things in mind: it would be drilled on the end for an external pump and it would have no refugium. I've noticed that most of your sumps are not designed with external pumps in mind. I have always held the belief that external pumps are stronger (capable of generating more gph), more reliable and put less heat into the aquarium system. Am I wrong about all these things? Have you not found many of these things to be true? The other thing regarded the refugium. Rightly or wrongly, I had the belief that refugiums are somewhat of a fad. I thought that all a sump (strictly speaking) needed to accomplish was as a place to hide your mechanical filtration and that if your display had enough live rock and a DSB that your biological filtration would be taken care of. I'm beginning to second guess myself for a lot of reasons not the least of which is because my external Sequence Dart return pump is taking up a lot of valuable cabinet length which could be used for a much longer sump / refugium." Anyone here on Indmas want to give your opinions on the issues I raised with Marc?

Thanks for the replies. That bottom tripm showing has been annoying me too - the only thing is that I can't figure out good looking way to cover it. I could extend the front rails and stiles to cover it but I thought it would just look at little strange. Any ideas? Ah, a refugium - I go back and forth on this issue, to have or not to have. Actually, I've tossed the idea around about doing a gravity fed version (?) that would sit above the display tank in the upper left-hand cabinet - it would be a 10gal tank. I thought I saw something like this a long time ago on RC possibly a thread by AELOVESHERGIRLS. Anyway, the length of the wall the tank sits on is just over 14' so a complimentary right side I could do. I hadn't really given that any thought but what a 10' monster it would be! Originally the plan was to build this in 3 pieces: the base, the canopy and the left cabinet directly next to the tank and canopy. Right now the plan is to cut and assemble the entire structure and then completely disassemble move into the basement and reassemble again. Since much of the internal structure is 2"x6" construction, the weight and size of moving this into the basement just wasn't appealing.

Just thought I get some feedback on my proposed cabinet. I've been working on this for several months now doing renderings in Visio but just got around to doing a photo-realistic view of the front. Some basic info: The stand is 2' wider than the aquarium and 7" deeper. I was having all kinds of issues with an 18" wide stand (the footprint of the aquarium is 72" x 18") - everything was so cramped so I deceded to deepen this one and make it 25" which not only gives me a lot more room but also lets me reuse my stand if I want to get a 210 in the future. Total canopy height is 15" but 1" of that sits down over the aquarium covering the top trim. I'd welcome any feedback... Oh yeah, before I get tons of questions about the aquarium, it's a cut and paste from ReefCentral's Tank of the Month - December 2005

Russ, I'm at work and unfortunately they've shut off our access to internet sites like photobucket otherwise I'd send you a picture. Anyway, I have a BRUTE trashcan in my utility room next to RO/DI. I put the can up on concrete blocks (2 high), drilled a hole about 3" from the bottom and put a bulkhead in. On the outside of the can I screwed in a threaded ball valve and then put a threaded elbow with barbed fitting on the end of it. I also sealed both sides of the BRUTE where the bulkhead is with silicone. The height of the blocks and where I drilled the bulkhead makes it perfect for me to slip a 5gal bucket under the tap, turn the ball valve and away I go. I'll admit that before I put the silicone on the bulkhead I was getting a small leak easpecially when the can was completely full but after I siliconed it, everything has been fine. One last thing, the barbed elbow fitting at the end of the tap works out really well when I want to run a hose from the tap to my sump in the adjacent room. I already have an auto topoff for evaporation, but for water changes, I can mix up water in the trashcan and let gravity do the rest.

The founder of Home Depot gave a $200 million gift to Atlanta, GA for an 8 million gallon aquarium that's the size of a football field; it opens November 23rd. http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/11/21...rium/index.html

Depending on when I get my 2 1/2 year-old down for his afternoon nap, I can probably slip over for 45 minutes to an hour. My guess is it will be between 1pm - 2pm. Hope I won't miss all the fun

Well Nikki, if visuals help, see my image below. Let me try to explain what you're looking at first, which is a top view of the aquarium stand with the aquarium on top - everything is drawn to scale. So, here's the deal..while the aquarium is ~18"D, the plan in to make the cabinet ~25"W to accomodate a deeper tank someday. The other thing you'll notice is that I'm planning a 24"W cabinet next to/attached to the 6'W tank stand. So, the overall width of the cabinet will be 8'. So, looking at the tank floorplan, where would you position a refugium and/or put a closed loop? Keep in mind I have a glass tank so drilling it isn't quite as easy as with an acrylic one.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words, here is my pitiful attempt to illustrate what I was trying to describe above: Option 1: Option2: Keep in mind 2 of the SeaSwirls would be mounted on the back of the aquarium while the other two would be mounted on opposing ends.

Orginal plan: 2, 1" drains empty into mechanical area (filter pads & sponge) of 36" sump. Water flows into center area of sump with ER skimmer. Then flows over a baffle into 3rd small area of sump before being sucked out by Sequence dart. Water to be returned 4 ways: through 2, 3/4" bulkheads in overflow box terminating with standard loc-line and through 2, 3/4" SeaSwirls on back of tank. New HAIRBRAINED idea: 2, 1" drains empty into mechanical area (filter pads & sponge) of 36" sump. Water flows into center area of sump with ER skimmer. then flows over a baffle into 3rd small area of sump before being sucked out by Sequence dart. Water to be returned 2 ways: through 2, 3/4" SeaSwirls on back of tank. AND 2, 3/4" drains (used in original design as returns) to a closed loop with a small "T" off one of the 3/4" lines to a 10gal tank used as a refugium. There'd be a small baffle in the 10gal refugium with a pump to send the water back to the 3rd area (post-skimmer) in the larger sump. The closed loop pump for the 2, 3/4" lines would then return the water through 2 more SeaSwirls, these mounted at opposite ends of the tank. First off what do you think of the new design? What pump would you use for the closed loop? What pump would you use in the 10gal refugium to move the water back into the main sump?