Guff Posted March 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Looks like I can go straight over the back of the overflow and down to the sump with out causing any extra work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Not sure I follow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The swirls have a 90 degree eļbow that will allow the return pipe to run over the top of the return and down the back of the tank instead of curing holes in the overflow to route the return. That and not sure i would have enough room to turn the return lines down into theoverflow any way might change my mind if it looks bad and if I can get hard plumbing lines routed in the tight space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Gotcha now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer82 Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Ill have to read up on all this. Getting the new tank going shortly and will need to make it as quiet as possible. Not sure what my options are with a factory drilled tank and overflow though. Fwiw Ferguson's plumbing on west 84th St used to carry all kinds of stuff. The catalogs are available online here. http://www.ferguson.com/homeowner/product-catalogs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 So I got it up and running, but I'm getting some serious gurgling from the 2 pipes in the sump. Also getting some serious hissing/sucking noise from the open channel pipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatO Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 which 2 pipes in the sump?. there should be 0 gurgling on the siphon, it has no air in it. the sucking noise from the open channel means you have to much going into it. the open should have a very small amount of water trickling over it. mine makes noise sometimes, and its always when a snail finds his way to my valve. if the siphon is making noise, it means the bubbles have not purged yet, or that you have plumbing with dry fittings that are allowing air in. where is your valve located for the siphon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 The gurgling seems to be coming from the open channel pipe, and it seems to be when I run the water level higher in the overflow box. I think I may have made a mistake by making siphon and open channel the same height. When I run the water level lower in the overflow I don't have the gurgling, but then I have water noise as the water falls 4" into the water level in the overflow. When I try to increase the height in the over flow by closing down the siphon line valve that's when the open channel starts gurgling. Is your open channel and siphon line intakes at the same hieght in the overflow box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatO Posted March 22, 2013 Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 nope. about 1/2-1" difference. they say you dont need a difference in height, but i put on in mine and it helped a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 Yeah, not sure I guess I can keep playing but the gurgling gets pretty loud as soon as the level in the overflow gets up. I think I need a higher return flow rate so that maybe I can open the suction line valve to increase the flow?? So far it seems like the only way to increase the height in the overflow box is by closing down the suction line valve. The gate valves on the return lines are great for fine control, but it also very difficult to determine how much you have them open too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2013 My valve is right at the top of my sump, I have 8-10" after the valve that submerges it in the water. I just did a test to see if the siphone would restart and it didn't go so well, I let it go for about 5 minutes or so and it went over the second line and was near submerging it as well. I had to momentarily raise the suction out of the water for a second to burp it and the suction began immediately. I have a feeling I may have set my pick up points with the down pointed 90 being too far down in the overflow. Thinking I might attach another 90 to the bottom of the downturn so that I can raise the level of the intake some to see what that might do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 What about adding a flap on the inside of the overflow box so the water flows down the wall rather than splashing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yeah, theoretically that would be great, but how in the world am I going to attach a 8' long flap in the overflow box?? hehe. Not sure if I have enough shower liner left for that or not, though I could go get a 12" piece cut off the roll at lowes. The overflow does have an adjustable weir that I might be able to loosen and then get the shower liner pinned in behind it and then tighten down the thumb screws again...hmmm. Need to drill some holes in my return lines near the top to break the siphon on the return lines...that or go out and find a couple of check valves. Looks like I might be in a little trouble as the returns don't break the siphon currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Understood, forgot about the coast to coast! Is anything going into the open channel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yeah, it gurgles every so often depending on how high the level is in the overflow box. The higher it is the more gurgling I get. I can open the valve on the suction line and eliminate the gurgling, but then the water has to fall about 6" into the box and makes a lot of noise. I think I screwed up and made the standpipes too low in the overflow, I set them as high as I could but still kept the cap below the oerflow so you couldn't see them from the front, but I think that has bit me in the rear. The water level in the box when it is even with the overflow weir from the tank is about 6" above the downturned elbows for both the open channel and the siphon line. We need an impromptu second monthly meeting at my house on how to setup a bean animal overflow, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Set the height of the intake tube for air at a higher level so it keeps the water at one level where noise is not negatively impacted by the water cascading. Where's the intake tube of air for the open channel currently placed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Not sure I follow, the air line is currently on the top of the stand pipe with no extension line yet, this is currently 4" or so above the current water level in the overflow and it is still gurgling, I have to take the water line down another inch or so lower for the gurgling to stop entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 So zip tie the end of that 1/4" line to the water level you desire. When the water level starts rising the open channel sucks in the water and keeps the water at the exact height you have the line strapped in at. Is that making sense or do I need to get some pictures? I'm having trouble explaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Hmm, yeah I see what your trying to say, but I thought the point of the open channel was on only become a suction line as a backup to the main line. Am I missing a big piece to the puzzle on how its supposed to function. I'll have to see if I can get something setup and crank the valve back and see what happens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I've been using it wrong....I just read bean's site and it's only supposed to come to that level as an emergency if the open channel cannot handle it. I likely have too much flow going to the frag tank to use it as designed. I don't really hear anything though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Doh, I was hoping you were right and I missed something so that it would be an easy fix. I think my only option would be to go in with a pair of channel locks to break off the current T and then unscrew from the bulkhead to rebuild them higher. OR basically add a couple of 90's to turn the turn downs back up so that they aren't set so low. I'm assuming that the system would still work with an "S" on the incoming to the line haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin1300 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 If you dry fit you could add coupler to bottom and add pipe in small pieces on bottom until you get the perfect height too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatO Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 dont need to glue any of the pipe anyway. dry fit them all and you can easily make adjustments. on mine, i have no airline on the "open". i just have a hole drilled in the top of my 90*. think about it. if water goes above my 90* it blocks the hole off with water anyway, which in turn makes a siphon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guff Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yeah, I wasn't worried about getting the airline in, but I think I did get a bit hasty and glued all of my pieces in place, I mean to leave the bottom one dry so I could pull it but when the bulkhead was leaking I was not thinking straight and may have glued them all. I will check tomorrow, worst comes to worst I will break the "T" so I can unscrew it from the bulkhead and rebuild them from scratch again. Boy I've learned a LOT in this build, I thought I was well prepared and in good shape...how wrong I was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatO Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Haha. It happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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