1fish2fish Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 ok fellow hobbiest, i am about to start my 100gl rubbermaid sump build, i'm posting this thread for a couple of reasons, 1. to share my experience with others 2. to get some helpful feedback, as i am still prett new to this hobby (2yrs) As i go forward with this project, i will ask that you all be open and objective in your suggestions, and not be all about who's right and who's wrong. I'm sure by now we all know, different things work for different people. I am working with somewhat of a limited budget, so cost should be taken into consideration when making suggestions.....I am not made of money, nor do i have a "money tree" growing in my back yard So here are some details: DT is already up and running, approx 150-200lbs of LR, all that's in the tank right now is, 2 small rose bubbles (that came along with the LR i bought from another hobbiest and a pretty good clean up crew, of turbo snails, small crabs and such. Tank size is 150gl, it is not drilled and I will be using a, Aqueon HOB overflow box (model 220) Return pump is a Coralife Turbo-Sea 1740P My link 100gl rubbermaid tub approx. 75lbs of LR and since cost is an issue as i mentioned, i'll probably use two smaller skimmers, instead of one large enough for this size sump (I already have a vertex-100) so i'll probably be looking to get another one around that size (and hopfully price) to go along with the other one. I figure two smaller (less expensive) skimmers can do the same job as a large expensive (one i can't afford right now) skimmer........right Plumbing: the sump will be in my basement, pretty much right under the tank. The distance is approx. 12 feet (8' from basement floor to upstairs floor then another 4' to the top of the tank) So i don't really want to just drill 3 holes in my floor, because if i ever move, i don't want to have to possibly replace an entire laminate floor. So i'm thinking i will drill the holes in the floor between the walls, i figure it would be a lot easier to fix dry wall then do the floor. also since my overflow box has 2 outlets, i'm thinking of putting a "Y" on them b4 the go into the floor, so i only have to drill one hole for the overflow and one for the return. to help keep max flow to the sump, im gonna go from the 1" off the overflow to a 2" "Y" the rest of the way down. I'm also gonna put a "T" and ball valve in the basement b4 it reaches the sump, so i can drain easier for water changes. As for the return, i'll be using a 1" bulkhead & 1" PVC with a ball valve & "T" that goes back into the sump, just in case there's too much flow coming from the pump. It will almost go straigt up and into the tank, so i'll be loosing little to no pressure from my return pump. So that's the plan, thanks to a few guys here on INDMAS that i've bought equipment from already and to everyone i've gotten ideas & information from (which was a lot) very helpful....please keep the information coming (but please try not to be too technical). I will be posting pics as i go, so keep an eye out for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noodlenugs Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I have done the exact same setup, I think you find it to be very easy and makes life a LOT easier. I did nothing special to mine as of yet although I have some things very slowly in the works...as the wallet permits. I do not have any baffles and tons of room. I love it!! Very intersested to see how your project progresses and hopefully we can all share some ideas. Looking forward to the pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 The Display Tank the wall underneth the tank where i will cut the drywall and drill the holes to the basement some of the plumbing parts (b4 i decided to go with 2" into the sump), so some of this will be exchanged The 100gl tub One of the skimmers (vertex-100) The live rock (a least it was when i got it) The "heart" Turbo Sea 1740p Looking to start on Sunday, (since ther's no Colt's game til Monday Night) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I run a rubbermaid 250gal sump as well. If you need any help or want to swing by for ideas feel free. I'm actually installing my first baffle today to turn 1/3 into a refugium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I run a rubbermaid 250gal sump as well. If you need any help or want to swing by for ideas feel free. I'm actually installing my first baffle today to turn 1/3 into a refugium Hey Damon i wold like to come by and check it out.....I'm always up for seeing and getting new ideas from people that have already been through it. Maybe you could pm me your # and we can set up a time to do that....thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I have done the exact same setup, I think you find it to be very easy and makes life a LOT easier. I did nothing special to mine as of yet although I have some things very slowly in the works...as the wallet permits. I do not have any baffles and tons of room. I love it!! Very intersested to see how your project progresses and hopefully we can all share some ideas. Looking forward to the pics thanks "nugs", any input is welcome.....as well as any ideas you might have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefnfun Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Good luck to you. It looks like you have a good start so far. Let me know if you need any help. I really like having the sump in the basement. get some good heaters for winter. Take care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Pm sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plantguy Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 That check valve will most likely cause you headaches. Unless you were lucky enough to find one with a very light spring weight. They are made for tap water pressurized to ~50psi. The ones I use are the Georg Fishers, they dont kill the flow like the one you have, and are cleanable as well. GF Wye Check Valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lclzgarling Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Can you put your sump on a table about 2 feet high that way you don't have to pump water so high or bend over so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Can you put your sump on a table about 2 feet high that way you don't have to pump water so high or bend over so far. i thought about doing that, but i'm a lil concerned that the pump is gonna give me too much flow.....even being on the basement floor. and as far as bending over, it's not like i'm gonna have to do too much to it once it's up and running. Just some occasional maintance. but thanks for the suggestion, i'm sure my back will disagree with me at some point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glove Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 *edited lol Have you done any head loss calculations with the rating on your pump? (what is that thing rated for?) also... I would probably want some sort of stand just in case you ever had water on the floor, able to clean back in that corner...ect ect. Just an outside opinion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I have mine on the floor as well. And I love it. My concrete is always cold soi had to put 1500 watts of heaters in mine to keep it warm, but I'll always prefer to heat more than buy an expensive chiller. Unheated it goes straight to 73 in a day, with three 500 w heaters, one in dt and two in sump. My tank stays at 78 in day and drops to 77 at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glove Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 1fish, just my opinion, but that seems like a lot of power for just your pump. Your saying your trying to do this on a budget, but to me, it seems like a lot loot is going to be paid each month just to get water from the sump to the display. That pump will be running 24/7 @ 390+/- watts. Have you considered ALL other options?...just to throw some out there, from an outsiders perspective.... A. -is it possible to have a sump under your tank?- you really only want a small percentage of water traveling from tank to sump and back. This allows more time for the stuff in the sump to do what it needs. *I have a 180g, I use a 75g for a sump but I bet it only has 30g of water in it. Doing this would allow you to get by w/ a lower power consuming pump, and that means less loot out the door each month for electricity. B. - If you cant have a sump under the tank, how about a display fuge/sump next to the tank? This could be placed on a stand that would allow all the msc. stuff to be hidden, yet still close enough to alow the use of a smaller return pump and the added beauty of a display fuge w/ common sump under it. C. - If your stand doesnt allow room for a sump, it is possible to modify it to do so. this would be the time to use that 100 gal stock tank to hold your stuff while you re-work the stand. Not to discourage your plan, it should be fine but thats just a lot of power used in one plug. If your cool w/ that lets see some pictures of holes getting cut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I agree if it really does use 390 w I would eventually upgrade it. But the benefits of having a sump away from the dt is amazing. Never a worry about room. Carpet never wet from water changes, wife loves that part lol. Plus you can run revers cycle and never see the light lol. I actually use mine for a nightlight, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 *edited lol Have you done any head loss calculations with the rating on your pump? (what is that thing rated for?) also... I would probably want some sort of stand just in case you ever had water on the floor, able to clean back in that corner...ect ect. Just an outside opinion though. i wouldn't even begin to know how to do a "head loss calculations"....LOL, but the pump is rated for 39.4 feet of max head, i'm only going 12 feet, so that sounds like plenty of head pressure left for my tank, to me. that's my virsion of "head loss calculations" as far as water on the froor, it's in my back furnace area, and a little water on the floor isn't gonna be that big of a deal. there is a floor drain, not far from where it's gonna be sitting.(hopefully there won't ever be that much water on the floor tho) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I have mine on the floor as well. And I love it. My concrete is always cold soi had to put 1500 watts of heaters in mine to keep it warm, but I'll always prefer to heat more than buy an expensive chiller. Unheated it goes straight to 73 in a day, with three 500 w heaters, one in dt and two in sump. My tank stays at 78 in day and drops to 77 at night my basement is finished and heated, and even though this is a storage area, it is also heated. so i'm not expecting it to get too much cloder than the rest of the house. i know sitting on a concrete floor it will help it get colder, but not as bad as it would if it wasn't heated in that area. but i haven't completly ruled out a stand just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 My basement is heated and finished as well. And about 4 feet from the furnace. And the concrete will still get cold pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 1fish, just my opinion, but that seems like a lot of power for just your pump. Your saying your trying to do this on a budget, but to me, it seems like a lot loot is going to be paid each month just to get water from the sump to the display. That pump will be running 24/7 @ 390+/- watts. Have you considered ALL other options?...just to throw some out there, from an outsiders perspective.... A. -is it possible to have a sump under your tank?- you really only want a small percentage of water traveling from tank to sump and back. This allows more time for the stuff in the sump to do what it needs. *I have a 180g, I use a 75g for a sump but I bet it only has 30g of water in it. Doing this would allow you to get by w/ a lower power consuming pump, and that means less loot out the door each month for electricity. B. - If you cant have a sump under the tank, how about a display fuge/sump next to the tank? This could be placed on a stand that would allow all the msc. stuff to be hidden, yet still close enough to alow the use of a smaller return pump and the added beauty of a display fuge w/ common sump under it. C. - If your stand doesnt allow room for a sump, it is possible to modify it to do so. this would be the time to use that 100 gal stock tank to hold your stuff while you re-work the stand. Not to discourage your plan, it should be fine but thats just a lot of power used in one plug. If your cool w/ that lets see some pictures of holes getting cut! Well "Glove" here's the deal...... I could do a sump under my tank, and it probably would make a lot more sense to do so, but i guess i'm trying to keep this hobby intresting for me. so far i've been lucky enough to get the equipment i need at a decent prices that hasn't put too much of a dent in my pocket. the pump is only "290" watts and i know thats still a lot of watts to be running 24/7, but i'm keeping my fingers crossed that i don't see that much of a difference in my electric bill. when i say "keep it intresting" for me, i mean i like doing "projects" like this, and i've got the space for it. Also maybe down the road i might add some other tanks in that room that i could run through that sump set up. But what it really boils down to is, it keeps me intrested in the hobby, ya know what i mean? if i took the "easy way" (or smart way) with this stuff, i wouldn't have much to keep my head in the game. WC get a lil boring for me sometimes Thanks for your options and concern, and i'll be firing that drill up here real soon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I agree if it really does use 390 w I would eventually upgrade it. But the benefits of having a sump away from the dt is amazing. Never a worry about room. Carpet never wet from water changes, wife loves that part lol. Plus you can run revers cycle and never see the light lol. I actually use mine for a nightlight, lol. not sure what would be considered "low" watts for a pump, but mine is actually only "290" watts not "390", but i'm not sure how much difference if any that makes. Damon, i hear ya on the wet floor thing, i'm so tired of "toweling" up water off the carpet an di'm sure my girl will appreciate not having to hear any noise that goes along with a under the tank set up. I've got a sump under my 220 that sets in my TV room, and although it's not what we consider "loud", the little noise it does make can get a tad bit annoying at times. we're almost used to it now (or at least i am ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 My basement is heated and finished as well. And about 4 feet from the furnace. And the concrete will still get cold pretty well. yeah, i'm not loking forward to having to heat that thing, maybe some inexpensive "work lights" (the kind you get with the metal shades) would help heat that water up a little bit. Hey Damon, how much water would you say you actually have in yours? surely not 100gals!?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I use two 500 w heaters on mine, and it's not a problem. I could use just one as it's ran for a month with one I just added another to put less strain on the first. I think there is about 90 gal. I run about 4 inches below the top. Mines pretty full lol. But i don't think I could get bubbles if I tried lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 so i ran into my first problem already, the overflow box has a slight flaw that won't allow me to put it together properly. so it's back to the LFS to get another on. the level screw hole isn't lined up with the slot, so i cant get the screw in close up i'm sure i could modify it, but it's a lot easier to just go get a new one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1fish2fish Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 ******UPDATE***** ok, so after further review, i've decided to save my floor and go thru a vent that we usually keep closed in that room any way. Also, i think i'm gonna go with a 70gal tub i have instead of the 100gal. 1. cause it fits better in that area 2. i wouldn't have used 100gals of water anyway here's some pics of how things look..... I'll drain from the left side of the tank and go behind my QT and into the vent hole i'm gonna modify the grid and put it back in the vent hole from below the vent hole down to the now 70gal sump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glove Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Sneaky, I like the register idea. Maybe you take a couple scrap boards to hide and protect the pipes against the baseboard. Just make sure the pipes wont get bumped and your golden! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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