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Tang Help Needed


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I tried writing a full set of stats to avoid the usual "did you change your lightbulb" responses but then it timed me out, so I tried re-writing in notepad and pasting it into the post, but that doesn't work either!!! So here's my question in short form and apparently you need to be able to answer it without knowing any other information on my setup! lol

 

I have an Algae issue that I have been chasing for over a year. You can eliminate any of the usual chemical answers everything that should be zero is.

 

I used to have a foxface that kept it in check, but he got too big for the tank so I had to remove him and the Algae has got out of control ever since. It is mostly Green Hair and Red Hair Algae. Tried a Lawnmower Blenny and he wouldn't touch it.

 

I just bought a Juvie Atlantic Blue Tang to hopefully replace the foxface, he seemed fine on Friday and Sat, but on Sunday he developed Ich! I pulled him out of the tank, freshwater dipped him for 5mins and put him in solitary in an 8gal hospital tank.

 

He was alive this morning when I checked in on him, but still had the Ich spots.

 

What do I do????

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What i wouldn't do is a freshwater dip, all that is going to do is stress your tang and most likely weaken him further. Not to mention it doesn't get rid of ich. What are you using for nitrate and phos export? Refugium? Skimmer?

 

For your tang for the time being make sure he is eating. Do you have a cleaner shrimp?

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Hate to say it but I feed to remove ich. 95% of the time when I remove a fish to treat it for ich it dies from stress, stops eating, or still succombs to ich as soon as I re-introduce it to the tank. I think unfortunately you've done more harm than good, I would make sure he eats in QT and do lots of proper water changes to keep perams in check. If he eats, wait at least 4 weeks or more before adding him back.

Keep in mind he will get ich again. Feed him properly, I garlic soak 10 different frozen (drained) frozen foods to feed my fish. Seems to work.

If your perams are funky such that algae is growing oftentimes you have a tester not accurate. I would guess nitrate or phosphate or both need re-tested with a different kit. Poor water perams will stress him further adding the liklihood that he succumbs to ich rather than building an immunity over a couple weeks.

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Also, I've tried Atlantic Blue Tangs twice. Both times they survived a week, even eating... and then died. They appeared to not be able to fight the ich or not be hardy (usually why a fish dies of ich, IMO).

My yellow tangs, sailfin tangs, purple tangs, occasional powder blue tangs, powder brown tang, and hippo tang all kicked it just fine left alone and fed well. Not having that sort of luck with Atlantic Blue Tangs. I've only tried twice though, it took 3 or 4 before I had a powder blue make it. They seem really fragile.

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Thanks for the response.

 

I was reading the other thread on this and thinking I'd done the wrong thing (I was only following the 3 different books I have on fish!!!), oh well, too late now. I'll leave him in solitary for a while and see if I can feed him up.

 

I do have a Skunk, I doubt I'll catch him easily to put him in solitary with the tang, should I buy another for this purpose?

 

I am using a Eshopps 75gal skimmer in my sump, I run a filter sock and the drain filter on the overflow box, I clean each every day. I have the Red Sea Nitrate tester, but the cheap API phosphate tester, so if one was wrong I'd put my money on that one.

 

I use RODI from the REEF (our well water is waay too iron heavy to successfully clean) and mix in Instant Ocean salt. We have typically never had a Nitrate issue, highest I have ever registered was 2 and that was after we left the water with no change for just over a month! The only thing that I have noticed is that it is harder to keep the water clean with the Tiger Pistol shrimp digging everything up. Could he be the source of any increased nitrates/phosphates?

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By digging everything up, I assume you mean sand. That could be a huge problem right there. Anytime you disturb a sand bed, you are releasing all of the trapped nitrates and phosphates. That's typically why most people who start a new tank will opt not to use their existing sand to avoid importing all of the junk. I'm not saying replace your sand, but how in love are you with the shrimp?

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Ding Ding Ding we have a reason for you algae. Have you tested their water to see if its 0 tds? I'd stop using that water and find a better source unless you can test it and verify it is actually as clean as they think it is.

 

Also are you buying their fish?

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I'm on a well too and iron is an issue. What I do is use iron out in the water softener, keep the prefilter fresh(sediment), then run it through my RODI unit. After that I use a poly filter in a little hang on power filter to remove anything that could be left. I've used the Reefs water too in the past until I realized how high the tds were, best thing I ever did for my tank was to get my own RODI unit and make my own water.

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Ah ok, if the water isn't as clean as I think then we could be onto something. I don't own a TDS meter to check so I will have to get one I think.

 

So it would seem I need to look into my own water long term then. That'll be a major house rework to re-plumb the system to fit in an RO-DI system into the current setup (I already have a somewhat contrived water system involving the softener and the Geothermal). Is Premiums water any better?

 

I already use the Iron Out in the softener, but there is still iron in the water (it's pretty bad!). I might need you to talk me through your system and see if I can adapt mine to work.

 

And yes I bought the Tang from them also. I have always had pretty good luck with their fish though, this is the first issue I have ever had with one.

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Update:

 

He has less white spots than before and seems to be doing ok.

 

He is picking at the odd bit of Nori floating in the tank but doesn't tug at the Nori clip like the Foxface used to.

 

He does seem to cling to the glass though, he doesn't really swim in open water that much, is that a stress thing?

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^ Could be stress.

I would just keep him fed and keep water perams as close to perfect as you can. Remember though huge water changes are also stressful. It's a fine line...

Best of luck sir, keep us updated.

I would suspect your water as well from what has been said but I am not a star example as I often let my filters get way overused before replacing.... I can always tell with the algae growth though :D

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Ah ok, if the water isn't as clean as I think then we could be onto something. I don't own a TDS meter to check so I will have to get one I think.

 

So it would seem I need to look into my own water long term then. That'll be a major house rework to re-plumb the system to fit in an RO-DI system into the current setup (I already have a somewhat contrived water system involving the softener and the Geothermal). Is Premiums water any better?

 

I already use the Iron Out in the softener, but there is still iron in the water (it's pretty bad!). I might need you to talk me through your system and see if I can adapt mine to work.

 

And yes I bought the Tang from them also. I have always had pretty good luck with their fish though, this is the first issue I have ever had with one.

 

 

You can get the TDS meters faily cheap on ebay. If you can maybe call the Reef and ask them what its running and report back. The water premium sells is RO I beleive but I have used it and not had any problems. A good RODI system is worth the inverstment in the long run. Since your on a well you probably want to get one with a booster pump so that it will be more efficient. Air water ice or bulk reef supply are good sources for RODI units and advice. I simply have mine attached to a pipe coming out of the softener with a saddle valve and then run the waste into the drain that is in the garage.

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One of the greatest contributors to algae is iron content, I read an article somewhere not long ago that talked about all levels at 0 and still having algae after many tests and almost going nuts they realized high iron, maybe a $20 (at lowes, menards, etc) iron filter before the r/o would be in order? It's an idea that is different than the normal ideas but hey nothing in the hobby is a true standard IMO

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Update:

 

Tang still alive and seems to be a bit happier in the isolation ward. No spots now.

 

However, from his clinging to the glass the whole time he seems to have worn the skin (if fish have that?) off his top lip! It's just white there. But he is eating more and is less jittery than before, so hopefully I'll be able to put him back in the main tank in a few weeks.

 

I have had a radical rethink of my sump setup. I had been trying to do everything purely biological and I don't think it's working. So I have added a GFO with NFX biopplastics in it as an extra filtration device on top of the skimmer. I have removed the extra live rock from the sump as it seemed to be adding detritus, the long term plan is to add it back in a refugium with a reverse light cycle.

 

An RO system is in the works, I liked the look of the small Live Aquaria unit, but I fear my well water might overwhelm it, so I am looking into the larger filters in the home systems.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

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You dont have to plumb in an ro right away. You could get a faucet adapter fir the short term while you figure out what you want to ultimately do with it.

 

Im in the process of going to mount mine under the sink. Ill use a 3 way valve from the supply to the sink that has and an in line ball valve to cut off the RO and just toss a drain saddle on the tailpiece of the drain and tada.

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Update:

 

I decided it was time to put him back in the main tank since I was getting tired of over feeding him and doing water changes in the QT every couple of days, plus he didn't have much room to swim. He had no spots for a couple of weeks, but I knew since he got ich before he'd probably get it again.

 

Put him back in the main tank.... a day later, ta da, he's now covered in spots. But he's eating and seems happy, colored up nicely, not clinging to the glass all the time, scouting round the rocks and generally doing fish things. Hopefully he'll settle down, the skunk will take a look and he'll get rid of the spots again. I'm not pulling him out of the tank now until he's dead.

 

Whatever I did with the GFO and removing some of the rock from the sump seems to have worked, the algae is declining, slowly.

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Update:

 

I decided it was time to put him back in the main tank since I was getting tired of over feeding him and doing water changes in the QT every couple of days, plus he didn't have much room to swim. He had no spots for a couple of weeks, but I knew since he got ich before he'd probably get it again.

 

Put him back in the main tank.... a day later, ta da, he's now covered in spots. But he's eating and seems happy, colored up nicely, not clinging to the glass all the time, scouting round the rocks and generally doing fish things. Hopefully he'll settle down, the skunk will take a look and he'll get rid of the spots again. I'm not pulling him out of the tank now until he's dead.

 

Whatever I did with the GFO and removing some of the rock from the sump seems to have worked, the algae is declining, slowly.

This is exactly why I stopped taking fish with ich out of the main tank. I've had better luck just feeding them good food and keeping them happy.

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Zero phosphates and nitrates can be very misleading. If u see Algae growing rapidly, it is avaliable. Remove the algae manually and recheck your levels, as, they will certainly increase.

Refugium, Refugium, Refugium! As long as the Algae has competition for those resource it will eventually die off from starvation, assuming your nutrient import is not excessive.

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+1 on buying a good RODI unit, it was the best investment I have made in the hobby so far and has more than paid for itself vs. buying RODI at the LFS. As Reefer82 suggested above, just invest in a faucet adapter to plumb the unit into when you need to use it if you don't feel like plumbing it into your house plumbing. It would eliminate at least one possible source of your algae issues. Def pick up a handheld TDS meter from ebay or Amazon to monitor its efficiency over time so you know when to replace DI or filters.

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well, he had another break out. Much worse than before, he was absolutely covered in spots and looked in very bad shape. went like that for 2 days and the cleaner shrimp wouldn't go near him. I thought I was going to lose him. But the funny thing was he wasn't acting any different, he seemed happy, was buzzing around the tank checking stuff out.

 

Yesterday I got home and almost all the spots were gone! He spent several minutes lying on his side on the substrate whilst the skunk cleaned him. His fins etc still look a bit haggard and his complexion isn't great, but he's still happy, eating and now getting cleaned.

 

He may pull through yet.

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